探索全球前沿学术脉络

When to use what Schatten-$p$ norm in deep learning?

arXiv:2606.15268v1 Announce Type: new Abstract: Schatten-$\infty$ based optimizers such as Muon have shown promising empirical performance, but there remains seemingly conflicting observations regarding whether they are beneficial. We resolve this conflict by showing that the conclusion is regime dependent. Even when the objective is smooth in the Schatten-$\infty$ geometry, smaller Schatten-$p$ geometries can be optimal, specifically in the low-dimensional regime, which we show includes Chinchilla scaling. This conclusion follows from a new noise-robust acceleration result for the SODA framework for $p>2$. The same analysis explains why Muon-like methods do not require warmup, why they naturally favor large batches, and yields a batch size scaling rule for arbitrary $p$.

Free Heavy-Tailed Lunch for Muon: A Theoretical Justification of Empirical Success

arXiv:2606.14560v1 Announce Type: cross Abstract: Non-Euclidean optimisation methods with matrix-valued updates, such as Muon and Scion, have recently shown strong empirical performance for training Transformer models, yet their theoretical advantages over Euclidean methods remain poorly understood. We address this gap in the heavy-tailed non-convex regime, where stochastic gradients have bounded $p$-th central moments, $p \in (1,2]$. We show that certain non-Euclidean methods achieve optimal sample complexity under stronger stationarity measures, while Euclidean methods incur additional dimension-dependent costs. As a consequence, for $m \times n$ matrices, Muon finds an $\varepsilon$-stationary point in nuclear norm within $\mathcal{O}\left(\min\{m, n\} \frac{\Delta_1 L}{\varepsilon^2} \left(\frac \sigma \varepsilon \right)^{\frac p {p-1}}\right)$ samples, absorbing heavy-tailed noise without extra dimension dependence, unlike Euclidean methods. We further prove this sample complexity, including its dimension dependence, is optimal for all first-order methods under nuclear-norm stationarity. Experiments on large language models support our theory. Surprisingly, our results suggest that other Schatten geometries beyond the spectral geometry of Muon can perform competitively in certain settings.